@nichobert said:

It'd be cool if the band could play Roses without people needing to reference that it didn't have a jam.. It's had 3.5 jams ever and two were on Island Tour and at Big Cypress, not exactly repeatable moments.. Ya Mar, Number Line, Kill Devil Falls, Caspian, Undermind, Fee are a small handful of songs who have gone deep more often than Roses but strangely don't get tagged with that "And they didn't jam it" downgrade. No shade being thrown towards the reviewer here. It's just a trend. Found it interesting that the entire fanbase threw a bit of a shitfit when Halleys didn't keep jamming, but nobody hears Undermind go through the motions and gets mad that they didn't 8/31/12 it. Despite IMO, that Undermind *crushing* every jammed out Halley's except for the last few minutes of the Hampton one.

Poor Waiting All Night. It's strange that Phish is still undecided on the best place to put this song. It seems perfectly suited to being the landing strip after the first big set II jam, or an extra trippy choice for the breather slot ala Roggae & If I Could. Random first set versions are perplexing.

ok @nichobert i'd like your thoughts here. i think number line and undermind, while in NO way composed like fluff or foam (you'd have to look to scabbard for that) simply play great as is. they don't need the jam. yamar, when it gets a ride, is cool, but it's got such roots, and it's so punchy, that it think it, too, is fine.

but halley's, roses, kdf (or dust jr.), tube....

not only do 'jams' emerge from them naturally - as opposed to dust / the 'jam' segment is totally tacked on - they really add something to a set. especially if you get a set that contains a couple of these tunes. i'm not one who goes crazy, but i think it's reasonable to say this latter set can be a bit redundant....

whereas, musically, number line, undermind, caspian (that got the bad rep cause of placement) have enough going on to 'separate' themselves and remain interesting.

didn't you think that four or five minute tube the other night was rather perfunctory.... on the heels of dozens very similar versions. i think there was one more.

i'd toss gumbo into the mix, too. it doesn't have to go 20 mins, like some tack on to fee, but something extra, like we saw somewhere last year down south....

and again with fee.... it's got enough going on that it doesn't need the jam.

just thinking