This show wasn't at Clement's Brewpub. I'm pretty sure it was the Orange Grove. Hungry Charlie's wasn't sold to Clement's until 1990. I was bartending in the summer of 1990 and Fishman came in one night and we talked about he always wanted to play there (as Chucks). I was actually playing my tapes from the Townsend shows a couple weeks earlier when he came in. So he left me his booking info and the show happened a couple months later in November.

This show was at Copperfield's. I am positive about this. I was there! They played the Orange Grove in the spring of '89. I missed that.

They sound checked Reba, which I don't think they had played officially played live yet. They were still working out the whistling parts.

This was my first Phish show and the only one I ever attended where the venue was less than half full.

David Bowie

In response to The Lot above on the anniversary of this show.

It was definitely at Copperfield's. The one and only time they played there. Coppefield's and The Orange Grove are definitely not two names for the same establishment. Copperfieild's was in the commercial area near South Campus. The Orange Grove was on Westcott. Totally different part of town.

This show was at Copperfields. I know because I was there and it was my first show, it was sparsely attended.

Phish did play at least one (maybe two) show(s) earlier in 5/89 at The Grove (as it was called) but I didn't go. It was after school was out and I had left town. Both bars do seem to be gone. Maybe someone who is stillin Syracuse can weigh in if they see this on whether they are gone or what they are called now.

The next show that Phish played and Syracuse was at Clement's Brewpub (in 1990). I was at that one too. This is another huge source of confusion as Clement's Brewpub was briefly the name of a vintage long time Syracuse establishment called Hungry Charlie's and which everybody who went to Syracuse at the time simply called Chuck's. Yes Hungry Charlie's, Chuck's and Clement's Brewpub are all the same venue with different names. I have seen that 1990 show listed in databases under all 3 names. For people who care about the historical record it goes like this --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5/89 - Orange Grove
10/89 - Copperfield's
11/90 - Clement's Brewpub (more commonly known as Hungry Charlie's / Chuck's)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They didn't play again in Syracuse until 1992 at the Syracuse Armory by which time they were far to big to be playing in bars. Around 1990 Phish played Ithaca more frequently than Syracuse as they had a bigger fanbase there and its a short drive down from the 'Cuse. It has gottent o the point that the level of misinformation around these shows has become a source amusement for me. But I will say for the last time... I know this 10/13/89 show was at Copperfield's. It was my first Phish show. Sadly, I didn't know their music very well yet and certainly wasn't recording it so I have very little idea what they played. I mostly remember them practicing the whistling of Reba during soundcheck and Page telling Trey not to whistle directly into the mic to cut down on the unwanted blowing noise. There were just as many regulars around the bar as there were people there to see the show. It was a strange vibe.

Notes from what circulates for this date…very confused to what is correct as Trey does reference Hamilton and Ithaca College after Lizards and Reba. Which leads me to believe this didn’t take place at The Front. Also, I’m not sure if he would’ve said you are only the second people to hear Reba when it had just been debuted at The Front 10 days prior? We may never know, but obliviously this new source must be in Phish’s archive at this point. Btw the source for 10/10 which circulates as 10/13 is superior to the source that is on phish.in/relisten.

art (marmar):

10/12/89 is mabel brown room at keene state college and they didn't play buried that night so no confusion. 10/13 is likely syracuse but i don't know the history of the place's name except it's been the source of confusion as you can see below. mockingbird's lists for the first three syracuse gigs are in italics below. it's obvious if your tape (with mike's groove) is a complete set, then their different list also containing mike's groove is incorrect.

i'm tempted to believe you have a set of 10/13/89 syracuse for three reasons:

1. 10/1/89 is the first reba and 10/20 is a lot of gigs between the first and second play of the song.
2. the show is listed in the 10/89 newsletter as copperfield's in syracuse
3. mimi probably would have attended the show and would have known the correct date and venue at
the time.

i'm also tempted to think it probably was at orange grove because of reason 3 but i know little to nothing about syracuse venues. i actually suspect copperfield's may have also or later been known as orange grove. here's what i know: phish's first syracuse gig or gigs (depending whether they played 5/12 and 5/13 or just 5/13 - a whole other inquiry) were at copperfield's and/or hungry charlie's respectively.

my suspicion is one venue may have had multiple names - ie: copperfield's could have been called that in 5/89 but called orange grove in october and still been the same location, leading to a misprint in the newsletter. it's also possible management thought the 10/89 gig was going to be at copperfield's at press time but venue changed between newsletter and gig. unfortunately i don't have much more to work from. your tape is a good find and sheds more light on the date and reba's history, but not the venue name.

-ks-